Introduction

> Two points stand out for me during this conversation. First, it's crucial to understand that "the war continues after the battle's end." This contrasts sharply with the American expectation that conflicts wrap up neatly with a signed agreement, after which we move on.

> Second, history teaches us that these continuations and the lingering impacts of wars are just as vital to understand as the battles themselves. Bridges to peace and stability are complex and require ongoing effort, far beyond the simplistic notion that a conflict is completely resolved once the fighting stops.

Revolutions and governments

> My book emphasizes flaws in our institutions, such as exclusion of certain groups, privileging position over skill, and perpetuating myths that hinder progress.

> Criticizing institutions out of love for one's country is vital; we should strive for institutional improvement without succumbing to either blind reverence or paralyzing cynicism.

> Being an "inside outsider" in institutions, avoiding being consumed by them, and pushing for gradual reform from within is key to effecting change and bridging societal divides through storytelling and courage-driven narratives.

American Civil War

> The American Civil War was rooted in "flawed institutions" that granted disproportionate power to slaveholders, creating a system that denied democratic opportunities, even to poor white men like Abraham Lincoln. It wasn't just about morality; it was about a fundamental economic competition for labor and the future of all new territories.

> The role of arms in society reflects a deep-seated belief in community defense, with the Second Amendment emerging from a historical context where citizens, armed for self-protection, were expected to fulfill a civic duty rather than serve a national army. This dynamic not only shaped our military history but also highlights the complexities around gun ownership, community trust, and post-war realities.

Lincoln and election of 1860

> The election of 1860 was highly divisive, marking the first time a Republican, Abraham Lincoln, was elected with less than 40% of the vote due to the Democratic Party's split and the presence of multiple candidates. While Lincoln did not openly campaign for abolition, he strongly opposed the expansion of slavery into new territories, focusing on containing its spread rather than outright eradication during his election campaign.

> Lincoln's ability to recognize the horror of slavery evolved over time, influenced by his personal experiences and pragmatic approach to politics. Though not envisioning a world of racial equality, he came to see slavery as a moral atrocity, shaped in part by his own difficult relationship with his controlling father. Lincoln's political genius lay in his practical, institution-focused strategies aimed at preserving the Union while addressing slavery in a way that balanced moral conviction with political realities.

Slavery

> Firstly, throughout history, we have seen the duality of human nature - the capacity for both harm and goodness. Institutions play a crucial role in encouraging us to do good, protecting our natural instincts to help others, and resisting the urge to harm. It's a fine balance between our self-centered tendencies and the desire to contribute positively to the world.

> Secondly, Lincoln's brilliance lay in building upon the founders' core ideas, emphasizing three key values: freedom, democracy, and justice. His vision of a society where everyone has a stake in the future, without seeking punishment but rather inclusion, remains relevant today and echoes through time.

> Lastly, democracy at its core means that the government serves the people, irrespective of historical or cultural differences. The American experiment was radical in this regard, prioritizing societal service over class-based rule or exclusion. The details of implementation may vary across cultures, but the foundational principle remains constant - democracy as a vehicle for serving all people.

Freedom of speech

> Freedom of speech is foundational to our democracy, and I firmly believe that "people should have the right to speak." This principle allows for healthy disagreements essential for progress, but it’s important to recognize the difference between public discourse and spaces designed for specific purposes, like a classroom.

> The lack of transparency in social media platforms is troubling; "the failure of Facebook and Twitter" to establish clear rules has led to confusion and arbitrary enforcement. We need consistent guidelines that allow users to understand where they can express themselves and how their voices can be heard without being silenced or drowned out.

> The ongoing struggle is to navigate the gray areas of speech—like what constitutes incitement to violence—which can be subjective and politically charged. While certain blatant calls for violence should be removed, it’s critical to engage in “empathetic debate” that upholds the nuances of free expression in the public square without compromising safety.

Death toll of the Civil War

> The enormity of the Civil War's death toll despite the lack of modern technology is staggering. Over 600,000 people perished, mostly in brutal hand-to-hand combat, making it deeply personal and visceral. The deadliest day in American history—September 1862 at Antietam—saw more than 22,000 Americans kill one another, which remains unparalleled.

> The war showcased both the darkest depths of human nature and its capacity for resilience and empathy. The Confederate soldiers' endurance despite starvation and dire conditions highlighted the powerful drive of fear and hate. On the other hand, the empathy and human connection exemplified by figures like Lincoln and Grant showed that even in horror, leaders could rise above and inspire through genuine care and presence.

Ulysses S. Grant

> Grant's transformation during the Civil War from an anti-semite and racist to someone with enlightened views showcases the potential for personal growth during times of conflict. His ability to command came from being a clear communicator, empathetic, and doing his homework, which led to revolutionary maneuvers in battles like Vicksburg. Grant's belief in protecting former slaves and his strategic use of the military highlight his complex legacy as a flawed but determined hero.

Ku Klux Klan

> Grant’s presidency holds significant lessons today, especially through the lens of the KKK’s formation and actions post-Civil War. It's crucial to recognize that “the KKK was not just a fringe group; they were deeply woven into the fabric of local power structures,” reminding us how history impacts contemporary discussions about policing and authority.

> Understanding figures like Vladimir Putin or even notorious individuals from the past is essential for grasping their motivations and the historical context that shapes their actions. “My Jewish grandfather taught me to know who the anti-Semites were, so I could prepare for them,” highlighting the importance of transparency and knowledge in confronting dark ideologies.

> Preparation and depth in interviews can elevate the conversation and reveal truths often overlooked by superficial journalism. “The secret to success in anything is outworking other people,” emphasizing that diligent research and a genuine understanding of a subject enrich not just interviews but also our collective knowledge and discourse on challenging topics.

Robert E. Lee

> I believe Robert E. Lee should be viewed as a villain, not a hero, despite his tactical prowess as a general. His refusal to acknowledge defeat and promote necessary change post-war allowed Confederate ideals to persist, fostering division and hindering progress. To truly learn from our history, we must reconsider how we honor such figures and the legacies they leave behind.

> Our understanding of war is skewed by the example of World War II, which ended with clear-cut victories, unlike most wars, including the Civil War. The continuation of conflicts post-battle and the return of Confederate leaders to power illustrate the complexities and societal failures in dealing with defeated factions and ensuring lasting peace and justice.

Abraham Lincoln

> Lincoln's brilliance lay in his ability to use diverse approaches to persuade people for a common goal - "Lincoln uses the war to move the country forward morally even if at times he's convincing people by using other reasons...that's great politics."

>

> Lincoln's diplomatic skills in managing international relations, particularly with Britain during the Civil War, highlight his ability to mix threats and benefits effectively - "Lincoln mixes sticks and carrots with the British...he was a very good diplomat."

> The failure of Lincoln's succession plan with Andrew Johnson demonstrates a key flaw in his leadership, underlining the importance of preparing for transitions to ensure the continuity of ideals and principles - "Lincoln had a terrible succession plan...he should have had a backup plan for who would take over, hopefully someone capable of doing the job."

If the south won

> The possibility of a Confederate victory raises profound questions about our modern world; a Confederate country could have emerged, rich from cotton trade and foreign recognition, yet I believe that "union victory is by far the better outcome." A world dominated by a slave Republic would have stunted progress.

> Historians must grapple with the idea that “the winners write history,” but I'm struck by how the post-Civil War narrative has often been shaped by the losers, leading to a skewed perspective in which we glorify successes while neglecting the complexities and failures that shaped our nation.

> True love for one's country means confronting its shortcomings; we must “study the failures” and not solely the triumphs. This approach mirrors the journey of leaders like Lincoln and Grant, who learned and grew from their setbacks. Collectively, we must embrace this humility to foster genuine progress.

Hypocrisy of the Founders

> Highlighting the hypocrisies and moral failings of historical figures like the Founding Fathers is crucial, but it doesn't mean we should dismiss their contributions entirely. The gap between ideals and reality offers an opportunity for critical reflection and growth. For instance, despite Thomas Jefferson's personal involvement in slavery, the Declaration of Independence remains a valuable and instructive document.

> True heroism involves recognizing and actively resisting the evils of one's own time, which is far more challenging than critiquing past injustices from a comfortable distance. Many who criticize historical and contemporary moral failures might not realize that they too could fall into similar patterns of behavior under the same conditions. Silence and inaction in the face of wrongdoing—whether out of complicity or fear—often contribute to the perpetuation of that wrongdoing.

John Wilkes Booth

> John Wilkes Booth's belief in a democracy for white people, rooted in his horror of African-American Union Soldiers holding Southern prisoners, reflects a justification for mistreating black people. His view aligned with a democracy for white Christians, resonating with 20th-century ideologies justifying ethnic cleansing and genocide, exemplified by Hitler wanting a democracy for the "right Germans" and expelling others to maintain the nation's greatness. This mirrors modern arguments against immigration, where immigrants themselves can oppose new arrivals, underlining a recurrent theme of defining who belongs in a society based on narrow criteria.

White supremacy

> There’s a deep-seated history of white supremacy in the U.S., rooted in European traditions, where the belief in superiority based on skin color is tied to both political and aesthetic judgments. The emergence of Christian nationalism distorts this history, falsely suggesting we've always been united under a single Christian identity, when in reality, many historic factions didn't even agree on what constitutes true Christian belief.

> It’s crucial to distinguish between inclusive and exclusive uses of religion. Abraham Lincoln exemplifies how to draw from scripture in ways that unify rather than divide, creating a common ground for all rather than reinforcing longstanding exclusions. This distinction is vital, as we should leverage shared texts for connection rather than using them as tools for division and racism, fostering an inclusive dialogue across all faiths.

Disputed elections

> Contentious Elections and Structural Issues: Examining the disputed election of 1876 shows how the electoral college complicates outcomes, making it harder to achieve consensus in close races. This complexity is echoed in modern elections, revealing a persistent issue in how we determine winners in tightly contested contests.

> Violence in Electoral Processes: Historically, elections have always involved some degree of violence and coercion, particularly to suppress votes. This isn't merely a relic of the past but an ongoing concern that underscores the need for centralized and protected voting systems.

> Modernization and Reliability: Despite technological advancements, our voting system remains antiquated, akin to 19th-century methods. Simplifying and modernizing our electoral system, using digital tools akin to those for financial transactions, could significantly reduce claims of fraud and improve public trust in electoral outcomes.

Politics

> I lean left on social and cultural issues, advocating for personal choice and rights, especially on matters like reproductive rights and individual lifestyles. However, I hold conservative views on fiscal issues, emphasizing financial responsibility.

> As a historian, I acknowledge that bias exists and strive to be self-conscious about it. I believe good scholarship involves recognizing and evaluating biases, ensuring that evidence backs up interpretations even if others may view the same evidence differently. It is crucial to navigate language carefully, using precise terms like "white supremacist" to accurately describe historical contexts while avoiding broad, triggering labels that hinder productive dialogue.

Donald Trump and Joe Biden

> I appreciate that Donald Trump, despite my disagreements, embodies a belief that "America should be a better country." His perspective that "things can be made better" resonates with my own conviction that we cannot live in a world devoid of hope. It’s essential to believe in the possibility of improvement, regardless of the methods or intentions behind it.

> Joe Biden, in contrast, understands his role as a "shepherd of democracy." He has dedicated his life to the political system and genuinely wants to foster a stable and vibrant democracy. However, the missing element in his leadership is a powerful language to inspire and unify us, especially during challenging times; a great speech can mobilize people to a shared mission.

> The societal obsession with polarized figures like Trump and Biden reflects a deeper human psychology where anger and frustration get channeled in unproductive ways. This "hate-watching" phenomenon distracts from meaningful engagement and can lead people to lose sight of their empathy. We must cultivate a mindset focused on positivity, recognizing that while disagreement is important, allowing hate to dictate our interactions is ultimately detrimental.

January 6th

> The January 6th storming of the U.S. Capitol was a massive deal because it was an attempt to violently disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. It was an unorganized coup d'etat with intentions to harm or kidnap key government officials. This was unprecedented at the national level, highlighting a moment of third-world behavior in our society.

> Healing the country's divide is possible, and I see hope in the younger generation, particularly my students, who care deeply about issues like climate change and aren't entrenched in partisan divisions. Giving young people more voice and leadership could help reduce the bitterness of our current political climate.

> Universities are complex ecosystems with varied biases depending on the fields, but the real issue lies in over-administration. Faculty and students often produce rich, diverse discourse despite their biases. We need to focus on eliminating excessive bureaucracy to restore balance and efficiency in higher education.

> Hosting the "This is Democracy" podcast with my son, Zachary, has reinforced the importance of taking a nonpartisan, historical approach to current issues. Integrating arts and humanities into these discussions, as reflected in Zachary's poignant poems, creates a more holistic understanding of the world.

Hope for the future

> I'm hopeful that these divisions were made by people and can be unmade by people. I believe that what we see today is not inevitable and can be corrected by addressing challenges in our institutions. The gift of the last few years is that we've been able to see the horror around us, which has raised consciousness and given us the opportunity to fix the problem.

> Young people today have a huge amount of power. With a demographic shift looming and the platform social media provides, they can move into leadership positions faster and drive change without waiting for approval from older generations. This Consciousness raising has created a new mindset where young people are eager to address and solve societal challenges.